| Official Luthiers Forum! http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/ |
|
| Scrapper advise http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=5480 |
Page 1 of 2 |
| Author: | peterm [ Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
I've been usin a Stewmac's scrapper for a while now and for most part it does a decent job, but now I am having a hard time scraping maple bindings. Maybe because maple is pretty hard? The scrapper is almost new, so I doubt thats the problem 
Any suggestions? thx |
|
| Author: | arvey [ Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
A scrapper is great if sharpened well and regularly, I really struggle with the sharpening side of things but just bought the Stew Mac burnisher and am getting better. I had tried the Lee Vally one but couldn't get a desent edge. How are you sharpening it? |
|
| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Mon Mar 06, 2006 11:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
The key is regular squaring, edge prep, drawing out a good hook or curl. maple is no big problem but if figured may dull the curl faster. If you got the Stewmac burnisher it does a good job but any hardened steel will do the trick. I have use a screwdriver with good success. Build the filing jig stewmac suggests, re-sharpen before the shavings start turning to dust |
|
| Author: | mikev [ Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
don't want to steal the thread, but on a similiar note I can scrape maple all day long, but can't scrape spruce well. Do you sharpen at a different angle? Am I just not sharp enough, I get tearout.. Whats up with that?? |
|
| Author: | Dennis Leahy [ Mon Mar 06, 2006 2:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Mike, the long, stringy fibers in Spruce do not scrape well, as compared to scraping most hardwoods. Spruce does better with "abrasive planing" (sanding) than planing or scraping. There may be ways to prep a scraper to do a better job on Spruce, which I suspect would be less of a hook, or maybe no hook at all. Dennis |
|
| Author: | Mattia Valente [ Mon Mar 06, 2006 6:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I don't much like scraping spruce (though if you want the slightly 'ribbed' look, it works great), but good, quartered, no runout spruce is an absolute joy to plane or chisel. Much prefer that to sanding, and much prefer it to planing, say, maple. |
|
| Author: | Martin Turner [ Mon Mar 06, 2006 7:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Cabinet scrapers are the next best thing to sliced bread but the trick is getting the things dressed properly. The best analogy I can think of is learning to use a side bending iron. You can read all the books you can on the subject but your first attempt is nearly always going to be a total failure. But it isnt a total failure because it makes you more determined to meet the challenge and you knuckle down and practise and practise until you get it right. This is what it takes to master the art of dressing a cabinet scraper.....lots of practise. Keep trying until you get it right. Some comments on cabinet scrapers: 1. get yourself some decent scrapers...I use mainly Veritas scrapers. 2. get yourself a Veritas tri burnisher (my preference) or the dinky Veritas burnishing tool. 3. You wont get a good burr unless you start with a a square edge on your scraper. Work the edge with a file and a Veritas filing jig and then work the scraper on a Japanese water stone. Takes more time but its time well invested. 4. Tough wood will take its tool on a scraper...expect to have to dress the scraper more often than when using same on soft woods. When working Indian Rosewood backs and sides I work with 5 scrapers and usually have to re dress my arsenal of scarpers after 30 minutes of scraping. Cheers Martin (Amateur Scrapologist) |
|
| Author: | Serge Poirier [ Tue Mar 07, 2006 9:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Isn't it here that someone uses old kitchen knives that have rosewood handles and that he cuts the blade to proper length and sharpens them ? |
|
| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Tue Mar 07, 2006 9:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Frank Ford has that tip on his site. I have 3 or 4 that I made. I use for all sorts of things but I made mine out of old bandsaw blades. 1" and 2" wide from work not my bandsaw |
|
| Author: | Serge Poirier [ Tue Mar 07, 2006 10:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Thanks Michael! |
|
| Author: | Miketobey [ Tue Mar 07, 2006 12:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
A suggestion- buy a BAHCO (formerly SANDVIK).It will come to you prepared for immediate use on the long edges. I say this because you will get an instant feel for what a properly prepped scraper burr feels like from the start. Carefully!! feel it before use-then you will know how it should feel with a proper burr. As far as I know, they are the only ones that come truly correctly done "out of the box." Also, I agree with many, including Mario, that they are the best. My LN's are perhaps equal but aren't finished out when you get them. I use Ron Hock's burnisher because I have never gotten a hunk of steel from him that was not perfect for its intended purpose. |
|
| Author: | mikev [ Tue Mar 07, 2006 1:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
so mr scrapologist, what is you take on spruce,, are you also a spruce equals no scrape kinda guy. I though that was the proper tool in the recurve of an archtop, or is that just the back.. for me it hards wood ,,yeh!! spruce,, yuck.. |
|
| Author: | dubell [ Tue Mar 07, 2006 1:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I have been thinking of buying a new scraper. The ones I have are from China and are cheap.....I think I payed $6 for 5 of them. Is there a difference between cheap and expensive ones as far as quality? Doug |
|
| Author: | peterm [ Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Maybe its the quality of mine that is lacking! I work on it with the burnisher and a few minuets later its dull again  Maybe I ought to try one of the BAHCO ones.
Thanks |
|
| Author: | arvey [ Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I had one cheap scrapper, Would work up a good bur and it would be gone in a minute. Get a good scraper. My first scrapper was a SANDVIK which gave me a good feel for it. I still suck at sharpening them but at least I know how great it works so am willing to put in the effort. |
|
| Author: | Miketobey [ Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
The price of one good Bahco isn't scary. It's like a PC 310 lam trimmer.Costs more thany many others, but you'll never be sorry. It is worthwhile to make the file jointer holder out of a hardwood-holds the file at accurate 90 deg.for jointing the edge. Make a similar one for the stone.Not your waterstones,if you use them-it'll wreck the stones.Stoning after filing makes a real difference-you'll get a very uniform burr.Even if you burnish with a screwdriver shank,at least shine it up so you don't put little nicks in the burr which can wreck the very reason for scraping.My thoughts.PS- my reference to the waterstone dilemma relates to when the scraper is stoned while holding it vertical to the stone surface. |
|
| Author: | Martin Turner [ Tue Mar 07, 2006 5:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
[QUOTE=Miketobey]PS- my reference to the waterstone dilemma relates to when the scraper is stoned while holding it vertical to the stone surface. [/QUOTE] Mike, yes wirking a scraper on the face of a water stone will wreck it. I have a water stone I use just for scrapers and I use the side of the stone and lap it frequently. Cheers Martin |
|
| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
The quaility of the steel will in large part deterine the life of the burr. |
|
| Author: | Mattia Valente [ Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
The quality of the steel matters, yes. BAHCOs are good, Lee Vallye's Veritas scrapers are good, so, y'know. I've found the local hardware store has good ones to (I believe they're Nooitgedacht, dutch-made, good quality square one). Doesn't really matter if you get the thing pre-sharpened; you need to learn to square up and turn the burr anyway. It's not difficult. Heck, for rough work, I simply file one face square, and use the coarse burr to hack away at it (works well for hardwoods, anyway). If I want something finer, I'll clean it all up/lap it square and turn a hook. Get a couple different shapes, and learn to love the things. They're cheap, so 25 bucks will get you a selection of just about every thickness and shape and size scraper you might ever want. Oh, and if you're googling: it's Scraper, one P. |
|
| Author: | BruceH [ Wed Mar 08, 2006 2:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
What thickness do you guys recommend, .60 mm or .80 mm? |
|
| Author: | Mattia Valente [ Wed Mar 08, 2006 2:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Get one of each ;-) The .8mm is stiffer, can tackle heavier scraping/shaping jobs. The .6mm is great for detailed work with a fine burr, easy to flex; the thicker is better for removal of stock. Heck, you can get 1mm thick scrapers for really agressive stuff, and super-thin ones (.25mm) for, say, finishwork and the like. |
|
| Author: | PaddyD [ Wed Mar 08, 2006 2:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
bend the scraper in an arc, like the mouth on a smiley face, and then true it on the waterstone, this gives much more stability, and i have to lap less often, then true the other edges and flat faces, and the trick is to burnish it very gently, taking 20-30 strokes on each edge, this will push the burr out and work harden it nicely, thats all i have to say about that, "forrest, i wanna go home" |
|
| Author: | Phil Marino [ Wed Mar 08, 2006 4:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
The best thickness to use depends on the surface - flat or curved. If you are working large, flat surfaces (a back or top, for example) you want a fairly stiff scraper, like 0.8 mm. I use this thickness almost all the time for furniture and cabinet work. (But, I haven't even started my first guitar, yet). 0.8 mm is stiff enough to keep the surface flat, but flexible enough so that you can flex it a bit to control where you are removing wood, and also flexible enough so that you can flex it enough keep the corners from gouging the work. If you're working curved surfaces, use a much thinner scraper so that you can bend it to follow the contour of the surface. A very thin scraper might be useful for smoothing the backs of necks,if you can curve the scraper enough. Phil |
|
| Author: | peterm [ Wed Mar 08, 2006 5:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Thanks, I just bought a Bahco scraper for the local Rockler store but it was not ready out of the pack! Anyway....I use a screwdriver as a burnisher tool and it worked GREAT! Thanks a lot for al the input. 
|
|
| Page 1 of 2 | All times are UTC - 5 hours |
| Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/ |
|